Full transcript of Pope's in-flight interview from Korea
By Alan Holdren and Andrea Gagliarducci
Aug. 18 flight to Italy
คำสัมภาษณ์แก่นักข่าวหลายสำนักพิมพ์หลายชาติบนเครื่องบิน มีความยาวมาก เพราะพระองค์ตอบแก่นักข่าวทุกคนที่ตั้งคำถามที่เป็นข้อสงสัยแก่คนทั่วไป และโป๊บฟรังซิสก็ตอบแก่ทุกคำถาม เราจะนำคำถามและคำตอบลงทั้งหมดก่อน แล้วอาจจะมีคำแปลตามมาทีหลัง โปรดเข้าใจตามนี้ด้วย
ต่อไปนี้เป็นคำสัมภาษณ์เต็มบริบูรณ์เท่าที่จะสามารถนำมาลงในเว็บไซต์ของเราได้ เชิญอ่านและแปลความเอาเองก่อน ภาษาง่ายๆ คิดว่าส่วนใหญ่คงเข้าใจ หรือมิฉนั้นก็ต้องรอคำแปลจากสำนักต่างๆไปพลางก่อน :
Aboard the papal plane, Aug 18, 2014 / 04:30 pm (CNA).- Speaking to journalists aboard the Aug. 18 flight to Italy from South Korea, Pope Francis said he supports international intervention in Iraq and is willing to go to there personally if it will help end the violence against Christians and other religious minorities.
He also addressed topics ranging from peace efforts between Israel and Palestine, future papal visits, to his personal schedule, relationship with Benedict XVI and life at the Vatican.
Below is a full transcript of the discussion between Pope Francis and journalists during Tuesday's flight.
Korean journalist Sun Yin Park, Yonhap press agency:
In the name of the Korean journalists and our people, I wish to thank you for your visit. You have brought happiness to many people in Korea and thank you for your encouragement for the education of our country. Holy Father, during your visit to Korea, you have reached out to the family of victims of the Sewol ferry disaster and consoled them. Two questions. One, what did you feel when you met them? Two, were you not concerned your actions could be misinterpreted politically?
When you find yourself in front of human sorrow, you do what your heart brings you to do. Today, they will say, 'oh, he's done this because he has political intention,' or that other thing. But you can say anything. But, you think about these men and women, mothers and fathers, who lost their children. Brother and sisters who have lost brothers and sisters…to the great sorrow of such a catastrophe. My heart…I'm a priest, you know, and being able to come close like that is the first thing. I know that the consolation I can give with a word of mine isn't a remedy, it doesn't give new life to their dead but the in these moments human proximity gives us strength. There is solidarity. I remember that, as archbishop of Buenos Aires, I lived two of these catastrophes.
One, was a dance hall where you could hear pop music, 193 died (he refers to Cromagnon disco). And then, another time a catastrophe with a train. I think 120 died. In that time, I felt the same, to come close to make them strong. And if we in these sad moments come close to each other, we help each other so much. And then on the other question and then I'd like to say something more. I put this on (the yellow lace from the victims' relatives). After half a day of wearing it, I took it on for solidarity with them, eh. Someone came up and said, it's better to take it off, eh. You must be neutral (there is a controversy about the responsibility of the tragedy: relatives of victims have touched on government corruption which led to building a ship with sub-par material). But, listen with human sorrow you can't be neutral. It's what I feel. Thanks for this question. Thanks.
American journalist Alan Holdren, Catholic News Agency/ACI PRENSA/ EWTN:
As you know, not long ago the U.S. military forces have started bombing terrorists in Iraq to prevent a genocide. To protect the future of the minorities, I think also of the Catholics under your guidance, do you approve of this American bombing (campaign)?
Thanks for such a clear question. In these cases where the is an unjust aggression, I can only say that it is licit to stop the unjust aggressor. I underscore the verb “stop.” I don't saying to bomb or make war, (but) stop it. The means with which it can be stopped should be evaluated. To stop the unjust aggressor is licit. But we also have to have memory, as well, eh. How many times under this excuse of stopping the unjust aggressor the powers have taken control of nations. And, they have made a true war of conquest. One single nation cannot judge how you stop this, how you stop an unjust aggressor. After the Second World War, there was the idea of the United Nations. It must be discussed there and said 'there's an unjust aggressor, it seems so “How do we stop it?” Only that, nothing more. Secondly, the minorities. Thanks for the word because they speak to me of the Christians, poor Christians – it is true, they suffer – and the martyrs – and yes, there are so many martyrs – but here there are men and women, religious minorities, and not all Christian and all are equal before God, no? Stopping the unjust aggressor is a right that humanity has but it is also a right of the aggressor to be stopped so he doesn't do evil.
French journalist Jean Louis de la Vaiessiere, Agence France Press:
As Cardinal Filoni and the Dominican superior Bruno Cadoré, Would you be ready to support a military intervention against the jihadists in Iraqi territory? Another question, do you think of someday being able to go to Iraq, maybe to Kurdistan to sustain the Christian refugees and pray with them in the land where they've lived for 2000 years?
Thank you. I have been not long ago with the governor of Kurdistan. He had a very clear thought on the situation and how to find a solution but it was before these last aggressions. And the first question I have responded to. I am only in agreement in the fact that when there is an unjust aggressor that he is stopped. Sorry, I forgot about that. Yes, I am available but I think I can say this. When we heard with my collaborators this situation of the religious minorities and also the problems in that moment of Kurdistan which couldn't receive so many people. It's a problem. It's understood. They couldn't, right? It can't be done and we've thought of so many things. We wrote first of all a communique that Fr. Lombardi wrote in my name. Then, this statement was sent out to all of the nunciatures so that it might be communicated to the governments. Then, we sent a letter to the secretary general of the United Nations. And so many things and in the end we said, eh, sending a personal envoy (who was) Cardinal Filoni. And in the end we have said, and if it were necessary when we return from Korea we can go there. It was one of the possibilities. This was the response. And in this moment, I am ready and right now it isn't the most, the best thing to do but I am disposed for this.
Italian journalist Fabio Zavattaro, Rai Television:
You were the first pope to fly over China. The telegram that you sent to the Chinese president was received without negative comments. Are we passing on to a possible dialogue and would you like to go to China?
Vatican Spokesman Father Federico Lombardi: I can announce that we are now in Chinese airspace so the question is pertinent.
Pope Francis: When we were about to enter into Chinese airspace I was in the cockpit with the pilot. One of them, showed me the registry. Anyway, he said, there were 10 minutes left before entering Chinese airspace. we have ask for authorization. You always ask. 'Is it normal to ask for permission in every nation? Yes.' I heard how they asked authorization and how they responded. I was a witness to this. Then the pilot said, now we send the telegram. But I don't know how they will have done it by like that. So, then i said goodbye to them and went back to my seat and i prayed a lot for that beautiful and noble Chinese people. a wise people. i think of the great Chinese sages, a history of science and knowledge. Also we Jesuits have a history there, also Father (Matteo) Ricci. And, all thees things came up to my mind. Do I have a wish to go.? Certainly, tomorrow. Yes. We respect the Chinese people. It's just that the Church ask for freedom for its role and for its work. This is another condition. But, do not forget that fundamental letter for the Chinese problem which was the letter sent to the Chinese by Pope Benedict XVI. That letter today is current. Rereading it is good for you. The holy see is always open to being in contact, always, because it has a real esteem for the Chinese people.
Spanish journalist Paloma Garcia Ovejero, Radio Cope:
The next trip will be Albania, then maybe Iraq and the Filippines and Sri Lanka. But where will you go in 2015? I'll tell you also just in case, you know that in Avila and Alba de Tormes there are so many expectations, can they still hope?
Pope Francis: Yes, yeah. The madam president of Korea in perfect Spanish told me “hope is the last thing to go.” That's what she said. Hoping for the unification of Korea, no. That's what she told me. We can hope, no? But it has not been decided...
Journalist: and after Mexico?
Now I'll explain. This year, Albania is planned. Some say that the Pope has a style of starting things from the peripheries. But, I'm going to Albania for two important reasons. First, because they were able to make a government – and let's think of the Balkans, eh – a government of national unity among Muslims, Orthodox and Catholics with an inter-religious council that has helped a lot and is balanced. And this is good it is harmonized it. The presence of the Pope to all peoples…but you can work well, eh. I've that it could be a true aid to that noble people. I've also thought of the history of Albania, which of all the nations in the former Yugoslavia was the only one that in its constitution had the practical atheism. If you went to Mass, it was unconstitutional. And then, one of their ministers told me that - and I want to be precise in the number – 1820 churches were destroyed, orthodox and catholic, in that time. And then other churches were made into cinemas and others dance halls. I felt like I needed to go. It's close, done in a day.
Next year, I would like to go to Philadelphia for the encounter of families. I was also invited by the president of the United States to the American congress and by the secretary general of the United Nations in New York. Maybe the three cities together, no? Mexico. The Mexicans would like me to go to Our Lady of Guadalupe. And we could take advantage of that, but it's not certain.
And then Spain. The monarchs have invited me. And the episcopate has invited me. But it's raining invitations to go to Spain, also Santiago di Compostela. But maybe, and I won't say more, because it isn't decided, to go in the morning to Avila and Alba de Tormes and return in the afternoon. It would be possible, yes, but it's not decided. And this is the response. Thank you.
German journalist from KNA:
What type of relationship is there between you and Benedict XVI? Is there an habitual exchange of opinions and ideas? Is there a common project after this encyclical?
We see each other. Before leaving I went to see him. He, two weeks prior, had sent me an interesting text and he asked me an opinion. We have a normal relationship because I go back to this idea and maybe a theologian doesn't like it. But, I think that the pope emeritus is not an exception. After so many centuries, he's the first emeritus and let's think that if i am aged and don't have the strength, but it was a beautiful gesture of nobility and also humility and courage. But, I think that 70 years ago also the bishops emeritus were an exception. They didn't exist. Today, the bishops emeritus are an institution. I think that the pope emeritus is already an institution. Why? Our lives are getting longer and at a certain age there is not the capacity to govern well, because the body tires and health perhaps is good but there is the capacity to carry forward all of the problems like those in the governance of the church. I think that Pope Benedict made this gesture of popes emeritus. I repeat that maybe some theologian would say this isn't just, but i think like this. The centuries will tell if it's like this or not, we'll see, but if you can to say to me, 'but do you think that one day if you don't feel like it, will you go on?' But, I would do the same. I would do the same. I will pray, but I would do the same. He opened a door that is institutional not exceptional. And our relationship is one of brothers, truly, but I've said that it's like having a grandfather at home for the wisdom. He has a wisdom with his nuances and it does me well to hear. He encourages me a lot. This is the relationship we have.
Japanese journalist Yoshinori Fukushima:
Your Holiness, Pope Francis, first of all many thanks for this first visit to Asia. During this visit, you met people who have suffered. What did you feel when you greeted the seven 'comfort women' at mass this morning. And regarding the suffering of people, as in Korea there were hidden Christians in Japan and next year will be the 150th anniversary of their coming out (after years of hiding, editor note – see my previous email ). Would it be possible to pray for them together with you in Nagasaki? Thanks.
It would be wonderful. I was invited, eh, both by the government and the episcopate I was invited. But suffering. You go back to one of the first questions. The Korean nation is a people that has not lost its dignity. It was a people invaded and humiliated, it has gone through wars and been divided with so much suffering. Yesterday, when I went to the encounter with young people, I visited the museum of the martyrs there. It's terrible the suffering of these people. Simply to not step on the cross. It's a pain, an historical suffering. It has the capacity to suffer this nation and also this is a part of its dignity. Also today, when there were these elderly ladies in front at Mass. Think that during that invasion they were girls taken away to the police stations to be taken advantage of. And they haven't lost their dignity. They were there today showing their faces. These elderly women, the last of them who remain. It's a people strong in their dignity. But going back to martyrdom and suffering, also these women are the fruits of war. Today we are in a world of war. everywhere. Someone told me, 'you know father that we're in the third world war, but in pieces. ' He understood this, no? It is a world in war where they commit these cruelties.
I would like to speak about two words. First, cruelty. Today, children don't count. Once they spoke of 'conventional warfare.' Today this doesn't count. I'm not saying that the conventional war is a good thing, but today the bomb goes and kills the innocent with the culpable with the child and the women and mother. They kill everyone. But, we need to stop and think a bit about what level of cruelty we have reached. This should scare us. And, this is not to create fear. We could make an empirical study. The level of cruelty today of humanity is a bit scary. Another word on which I would like to say something in relation with this is torture. Today, torture is one of the almost ordinary means of acts of intelligence services, of judicial processes. And, torture is a sin against humanity. It is a crime against humanity. And, to Catholics I say that torturing a person is a mortal sin. It is a grave sin. But, it's more. It's a sin against humanity. Cruelty and torture. I would really like it if you in your media were to make a reflection of how you see these things today, how is the level of cruelty of humanity and what you think of torture. I think it would do us all well to think about this.